The Glove, part 3
Continuing with the discussion on shooting gloves per the Hill style and otherwise...
So we've determined that a glove can be with an insert or not, stiff or not, depending on how it's constructed. The case made for the insert-style glove is a good one, as Hill showed, along with his students. The insert can help spread out the pressure caused by idiosyncrasies of the shooting fingers and the alignment of the first joint of the fingers. The stiff glove tips can help prevent the fingers from curling around the string too much and due to that, will help make a more positive touch along the face as an anchor point is ingrained into repeatable action through practice. But how does one go about making this all work for you? Some people hate a glove, and are diehard shooting tab fans. That's great if it works for them. A tab is slower to use in the field...but that's a moot point if someone isn't shooting at game quickly and with little notice to get a shot off. Hill shot running rabbits and deer, charging hogs and flying birds...and rapid speed shooting of follow up shots require fast handling of arrows by the nock. Rare is the longbow shooter in today's world implementing these tactics. So the tab can work just fine. However, if you ever want to get proficient at all the Hill-style hunting shots and open up more opportunities to shoot game, then you may want to try a glove and get it to fit you just right.
How do we go about getting that Hill style glove to work just right? After checking your finger alignment with the first joints, and if there are not adjustments to be made because you can grip the string with even pressure and a relaxed back-of-the-string-hand...great. Then it's all about feel and control. If you need some modifications to fit the glove to your fingers or hand, follow along.
Most Hill style gloves made today are available from very few suppliers. Of note, Howard Hill Archery's future of glove making is up in the air, but there is also E.W. Bateman, Neet, and Fairbow Netherlands making good gloves of various varieties. Not all have inserts, but most all can accomodate adding the inserts. Changing inserts is relatively easy. If there's stitching holding the inside layer of leather, simply slice the thread at the rear of the stall, slide in a small awl or flat screwdriver between the insert and the leather to loosen the grip of whatever glue is used and pull out the insert. Most inserts today are of a stiff plastic variety. This is where the customizing can be done easily. Old style gloves from back in the day used plastic from bottles or a stiff nylon. Today we have access to thin plastic in lots of forms from bottles, jugs, or various containers, zip ties, banding material, or even thin leather or neoprene. Anything will work that prevents the leather from developing a groove with the rolled forward edge. At this time, it's good to mention that a bend in the fingerstall is what you want, that is a good thing. The bend must be gradual and smooth...not steep. If that happens with shooting, then the insert is breaking down and needs to be replaced. To replace the insert, cut a piece of plastic to size and slide into the glove and test it by shooting it awhile. If it is satisfactory, then the insert can be glued into place using Duco cement. If there is stitching, it can be glued to keep from unraveling with a drop or two of super glue, or a couple of small stitches put in place. I have shot gloves for years with inserts installed in this manner, easily replacing them as needed. Through some trial and error over the years, I found that various thicknesses/strength of zip ties work well, as well as some banding material. I keep an eye out for banding material as it shows up at my glass shop and cut some lengths that will last me for years of replacements.
You can spend a lot of money on a new glove and then hate it because it's too stiff. Well, it does need to be properly broken in before it goes into the junk drawer. A Hill style glove tends to roll around on the fingers a little due to the design, so they need to be ordered a little snug. If you're between sizes, order up one size and then tighten the stall by adding some extra little stitches along the top spine. Mold the stall to the finger, and forcibly bend the stall at the point where the string will be gripped. This may be at the first joint, or it may be behind the joint. Bend the stall using your other hand to help your string fingers bend the stalls and get a permanent bend in the inserts which will give a nice soft bend to the stall. This will immediately give you more control of the string and because the insert is there, the leather won't crease or get the rolled forward edge which inhibits good shooting accuracy. The bend in the stall will also help hold the stall on the finger. Then just shoot the glove and get used to it.
Or...after deciding you just don't want to go through that customizing to get a Hill glove to fit your fingers well, and you still want the smooth release of the stiff insert type glove, pick up an American Leathers Crossover. The BigShot glove has a softer feel using a neoprene inserts and nylon overlays. It's a great glove that allows a more curled-finger hold on the string. The Crossover uses a plastic insert usually, or a leather insert if asked for at time of order. I personally need the stiff insert to work with my finger joints. I credit Big Jim (of Big Jim's Bow Co.) in pushing me to make the Crossover. I was asked by John Turner (recently deceased of American Leathers) to hand-make some gloves for Jim's extra large hands. I made a prototype using the BigShot glove platform and used it myself to shoot a nice buck at long range that hunting season, so I made some more for Big Jim. He declared it a success and the Crossover was born. The beauty of the glove design (originally designed as a BigShot by James Schulz with great success) is that it holds the stalls tight on the fingers due to the glove back and wrist strap angles. This allows the stalls to be a little more loose and comfy on the hand and fingers and the stalls won't twist around or need to be sewed tightly like on a Hill style glove. There is more flexing of the stall over the knuckles so the fingers can be a little more bent for better control of the string with a relaxed hand. If the glove stalls loosen over time, there is no need to stitch them tighter. A narrow "shim" of leather or other material can be glued inside the stall along the top edge where it goes over the knuckle, making it a tighter fit. The stall inserts can be adjusted in the same manner as with a Hill glove by removing the original zip tie insert and replacing. Or....the glove can be sent back to A.L. and new tips can be sewed on for a nominal fee. I prefer to do my own modifications because I can try the inserts myself before gluing into place once I get the feel and performance I like.
The following photos show some of my personal gloves. Two handmade Hill versions (3 and 9 years old) and two custom Crossovers (6 and 8 years old) that I sent leather to A.L. to make the gloves from. (cowhide instead of Buffalo for the glove body). One Crossover has buffalo stalls which are extremely tough and long lasting, and the other has cowhide upholstery leather stalls so I can see how long they last in real shooting. So far, I've got umpteen thousand shots on the upholstery leather stalls and they are super slick and holding up well. Will they hold up as long as Buffalo leather? Time will tell but it's fun to test leather...so far, nothing I've tested lasts as long as buffalo except kangaroo leather. Kangaroo is too thin for my tastes although some shooters really like it. I do this to test the leather available to the average guy to make his own gloves and/or shooting equipment. The Hill style gloves I made using a different leather known as Vachetta which is durable, thin and gets really slick. I sewed the stalls on using a stitching punch, needle and thread. It's actually pretty simple.
Thanks again Nate.
ReplyDeleteI'm really starting to break in my new Crossover glove now and it's providing a good comfortable and consistent release for me. I'm finding I have a bit less dexterity compared to my old Bear Archery glove which makes handling nocks a little tougher, but I'm getting used to that too.
I can't stress enough how much of a difference using the talc powder makes. It's a permanent addition now to my gear bag. Anyone who hasn't tried that yet needs to get some.
I thought I read somewhere that talcum powder was a cancer causing agent?
DeleteThat's been up for debate. In babies and in open talc pit miners there has been found cancer causing amounts in large quantities. Sprinkling a little on a glove stall wouldn't be enough to cause anything...unless you are purposefully inhaling the powder...
DeleteI have a Big Shot I bought from one of the Schulz boys back in the early 90’s I think. Great glove. Great info as usual Nate.
ReplyDeleteGreat article Nate. I use a talc product called Trident Wetsuit EZE. It is made for use in putting on a wet suit. It works very well. I used a Bateman cordovan with inserts for years. I have since bought a big shot, and full shot with the nylon webbing on the finger stalls also with inserts and find the nylon working very well also.
ReplyDeleteGee Wiz
ReplyDeleteno wonder I gave up on a glove and went to a Tab-- Totally ignorant on fitting and adjusting one
had no clue - Just put it on and went to work -Haha
so used to a TAB now -wonder if worth trying again?
Very intetesting ! Thank you Nate.
ReplyDeleteI prefer also an insert glove the release is fast and clear 👍
Very interesting and informative as usual. I make my own Hill style gloves out of cordovan with cable ties for stiffeners. I use the wide cable ties and found them to be too stiff so I take a cabinet scraper to thin them down to the stiffness I like. I purposely make my stall a little to small for my fingers and then spend time working my fingers into them to stretch each stall for a perfect fit for that particular finger. This takes extra time and effort but the results are a perfect fit for each finger. I also make tabs with two layers of leather covered be a layer of super slick nylon webbing. These wear like iron with plenty of perfection and no grooves at all.
ReplyDeleteI use a Hill style glove but have recently started with a Schultz super glove for lack of a better term. Truthfully prefer the Hill style with stays. What I do to get a decent fit is to purchase one that is a sz smaller than what I need and get it wet and then just put it on and wear it till it is dry or close to it. Says on my fingers when shooting way better than getting one that is initially the correct size for your hand. The one's I have that are initially the correct size seem to stretch a bit to much for my liking especially in the summer when shooting.
ReplyDeleteI read that talcum powder was thought to have cancer causing properties to it?
ReplyDeleteI read the same.... For people exposed to talc in high concentration such as in mines, etc. There is trace amounts asbestos found in some brands of talc but not in J&J brands. The extremely small amount of talc used to powder a glove doesn't create any meaningful amount of dust, so for me, to powder a glove is risk free.
ReplyDeleteGreat information once again Nate. I only wish this info was available decades ago, as time and trial has taught me all that your related. A quality shooting glove is as valuable as the bow and quality arrow. Once you get a good Hill style glove broken in, it is amazing how it becomes a part of you, and really helps under stress for those quick shots. After reading the first few of the "glove" post, I went out and got out my old AL big shot glove and was amazed at how durable it had lasted and my finding of course echo's yours. Also, I cann't strongly stress enough of how valuable Graf's "Long Fix" book contains so much info, that takes years to figure out. Keep your string waxed.
ReplyDeleteThanks Nate for reminding me I needed a new glove—something stiffer for the arthritic fingers. What a difference a new glove makes! I ordered the American Leathers buffalo crossover with plastic inserts, needing something stiffer than the cordovan leather on the old Grizzly Styk glove now made by Bearpaw/Neets I believe. The AL glove came in today and without any breaking, only working some J&J talc into the stalls, went out and shot it. What a difference! That “sloppy release” wasn’t there and the groups were like the old days before sore fingers. It may have been all psychological. Or it may be 100 percent the stiffer inserts and no sore fingers. But likely a combination of both, with the result being the mojo was back, or at least a cleaner release. I wouldn’t have believed it if I weren’t the shooter. My finger joints aren’t sore and I’m thinking I should have have done this a year ago. It’s called getting in a rut... Thanks again. I owe you.
ReplyDeleteI have built a glove after this pattern now using scrap upholstery leather from a discarded sofa. I cut inserts from a plastic coffee can lid, and I'm hooked. My only issue now is fastening the wrist strap. Every Hill glove I've seen pictures of has an adjustable snap buckle closure, and I love how simple it is. The problem I'm having is I cannot find this type of hardware anywhere online. I could rig up a similar function with a tongue buckle for adjustment and a snap for easier on-off, but I would prefer the real thing for simplicity. It's the same slider snap we had on micro-chainmail type safety gloves in the meat shop I used to work at, but that doesn't get me anywhere. If anyone has a source for these adjustable strap snaps I would be grateful. Excellent blog, Nate.
ReplyDeleteI use Ohio Travel Bag Co. go to their website, item #10615. It's the standard strap snap. You'll also need the other components to make the complete snap according to your color wishes and you'll need a snap setter for the post and base and they're available through Ohio Bag as well
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