My bows...wait times, lists, and expectations
It's come to my attention, again, that there are folks in the archery world, specifically the Hill longbow crowd, that are disgruntled at my lack of mass longbow production.
I've never hidden the fact that I have been a small business owner for the last eighteen years (owning a glass company) which takes priority over making archery products. I build longbows, backquivers, and re-work existing used longbows as time permits. I work 50- 60 hours weekly at the glass shop...then go home and work in the home shop, building archery products around keeping up with family and a small acreage. Archery is a labor of love, not a means to make a living.
As my bows grew in popularity, floods of bowmaking requests came in, much more demand than I ever could fulfil in a timely manner. After putting potential customers on a "list" and taking years to work though that list to completion, I vowed not to get that far back up ever again. Human nature being what it is, and people's tendency to not take "no" for what it means, the only way to satisfy people was to put them on another waiting list. I'm getting close to working through that one, and there's still twenty or thirty patiently waiting folks who want to be alerted when I open up another list.
Here's the rub. As a small business owner, dealing with the day to day pressures of a quality product supply chain and labor force (post-covid), in order to properly maintain our customer base and provide quality service to my community, I've had to work way more hours to get the same amount of work accomplished. I spend half my working hours doing other people's jobs I never had to do before, without any compensation. Anyone in my shoes understands the amount of extra work tracking down wrong item factory-made shipments, poorly-made product quality issues, lack of customer service in obtaining products, etc and the toll it takes to keep our workload moving in a timely manner. No complaints from my side, it's just a matter of business in the glass world we live in nowdays. But it's left me with fewer hours in the home shop doing the things I'd really love to do...build Hill style longbows. I can build a backquiver with far less time involved, so I've tried to keep up with those orders in a better fashion.
That all said...guys who've waited for years for a bow...I've never shunned telling them that I don't know when I'll take their "order" or when I'll get to their bow. Somehow, some will tell the public that they've had a bow "on order" for years, when actually, no downpayment has been made, relatively few emails have been exchanged and no phone calls to discuss details. I fail to see how this is a "bow order". Back pre-covid, I was getting caught up on my list, almost ready to start another, then our world changed and I had to keep my glass business going as a top priority for my family and my employees. Bow production basically stopped for quite awhile. I know, the archery community for the most part may understand that, but with the amount of flak I hear, maybe the majority doesn't.
So the last few years, I've tried to be more specific to wait times, to try and dissuade all but the most patient customer. The ones who are just wanting to try a longbow, have heard about mine, but aren't a dedicated Longbow shooter, are not going to get first opportunity when the list reopens. They don't even know for sure what they want, but they want one right away. There's other bowmakers out there that can service their needs much better and I try to pass them along to those bowmakers, no hard feelings from my side. It is what it is.
But when I get word that people are talking disrespectfully about me, my bows, my wait times or processes, because I cannot control the day to day foot traffic or job issues at my glass company and the ensuing workload which caused me to not keep up with my bowmaking, I feel disheartened with the Longbow archery community. I thought we were better as a collective whole than that. Maybe not. Maybe there's a few that pass the sour grapes along to whomever will listen...maybe those people are just sour because they can't get a bow at their whim, I don't know. But plainly spoken, it's gotten old.
I have attempted to give back to the archery community, specifically in regards to the Hill style of shooting and equipment information and usage. What I can do in the bowmaking world will be as much output as I can and people are going to have to learn to play nice and not put me or my longbows in a bad light because it doesn't satisfy their wants. So be it. The very large majority of my bow customers, who have a bow that I made specifically for them, or if they have a used bow that they found that fits them well, do not part with the bow for any amount of money. The reputation of Sunset Hill longbows and backquivers can stand on it's own feet against the naysayers. Those who own one of my bows know in their heart what I am speaking of and for that I'm thankful.
So, I guess this rant is to explain my situation publicly and to let people know that I've got ears to the listening post, and I hear the disgruntled words. I apologize to those folks that I can't meet your expectations. In the meanwhile, I'll keep whittling away at my "lists" and doing my best to get the best longbow I can make into as many hands as I can. If you get one, you'll understand why they are in such demand, Enough said.
Shoot Straight.


Nate, I wouldn’t waste any time worrying about the “disgruntled”. Most , I’d say 99% of the longbow crowd these days is into shooting 3 under with a bow quiver and tab. They are absolutely clueless about anything Howard Hill related. They heard the name they think it’s “cool” and they think that’s the hillstyle.
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn’t matter if you sold a bow a week, half of them would be on sale the following week. Not because of the quality of the bow but because most are only interested in colorful wood veneers and round gripped flat bows.
They don’t spend enough time with any bow to even learn how to shoot it let alone appreciate the difference in a true Hillstyle longbow.
Building a bow for those people would be exactly the equivalent to casting pearls before swine, as the saying goes.
David Phillips
The first thing to understand about Nate is his priorities. God, family , business/friends, rest and producing Steen/HH/JS ASL& tackle. He's the bow whisper and JS wouldn't have passed the mantle to him if he wasn't confident about Nate's craftsmanship and commitment. Nate could decide to not have a list and just place everyone's name in a bag and once a year pull out 3/5 names and build that number of bows as his schedule allows. Nate will build when he's able to build, lets stop yanking on his bow string.
ReplyDeleteI understand where you are comming from Nate having had my own business
ReplyDeleteand I'm one lucky enough to have one of your bows and love it dearly (Thank you ever so kindly for making my prised longbow and back quiver) - I'm one that truly appreciates the Hill style longbow -and what you have made for me truly adds to that love for the history and shootability of that style- I also am greatly apprecieative of the information you have given on your blog site- very imformative and helpful
Just want to let you know that I'm truly apprecieative of your efforts and the excellent products you have hand crafted for me
Andy Man
Hey Nate— Thanks for being honest and upfront about your passions and life. At the end of the day, family comes first for most of us. That may mean six-day work weeks in your own business or two jobs to help your kids with college. It is also about missing the opening day of archery elk because your son has a junior high football game or the daughter has a league soccer match.
ReplyDeleteAnd it also about sacrificing, at times, those hobbies and passions like making Hill style bows and quivers to keep the spirit. Many of us understand that, and more. A few, not so much. While many who shoot traditional archery are like me, and have never met a bow they didn’t like,
we will probably never see a Sunset Hill Longbow and our lives will go on. And you won’t get rich and retire early from all your “second job” bows.
But our lives will all be further enriched by our families, a couple of kindred souls we call friends, and a good dog sleeping on the rug. And if we have that special bow, our lives may be richer still. The greatest gift you can leave us, Nate, in my opinion, is exactly what you do here: Keeping this discussion and learning and comments alive—about this thing we cherish called traditional archery. Thank you.
Patience is a very rare thing nowadays! Very sad,to me,how if a person cant get what they want immediately they start bashing you for it.
ReplyDeleteAs we all know,shooting our chosen way and weapon isnt somethibg you dig out a month before season,for damn sure,lol
Anyway,thank you for writing this up so we can refer to it when people start throwing crap around they have no clue about!
Although i also ling for one of your bows,im VERY happy to be able to read and re-read this blog for the valuable info you graciously share with us!
God, family , work and friends deserve the main time,we all appreciate you and what you have given, when/if my time to get a bow comes, I will be grateful, if it never does, I'll still be grateful for all you do, and the help you gave me.
ReplyDeleteGod bless you Nate!
Just keep doin’ what you do. Those who appreciate your work will be willing to wait. Those that don’t have that patience well…. I know that I personally have learned a tremendous amount about the Hill style of shooting and bow design from you. And I for one appreciate all you have done and continue to do. You have shared more of your knowledge than anyone I know in archery.
ReplyDeleteI agree 100% with what David said. Most of those people want instant results and don’t want to put in the thousands of hours practicing just for form. Nate you have sacrificed a lot just to teach the rest of us the true Hill style of shooting and just how forgiving a true ASL bow can be if you have proper form. I can’t thank you enough for all the help you have given me through your blogs and emails. The quiver you made for me is outstanding and I’ll never part with it. I feel privileged to have it. Don’t let those few get you down and just keep teaching the rest of us that appreciate it. Many thanks.
ReplyDeleteMichael Varner
Nate - their really was no need to defend yourself, but it never hurts to set the record straight. There was a thread recently started on the FB page Hill Style Bows for Sale or Trade that went off the rails a bit, but we got that sorted out. For those on that page that still may not understand I have posted a link to this blog post. My personal opinion is that your bows, quivers, armguards, etc. are top notch, but the highest value is the knowledge you have gleaned from John Shulz and others and continue to share with us. Best of luck to you in all endeavors!
ReplyDeleteNate - I really enjoy your blog and check it out very frequently for new posts. Keep it up!
ReplyDeleteHave you ever considered NOT taking custom orders and simply building what you want, when you want, and posting one for sale whenever it’s ready for a home? No pressure, no one whining about a wait time, or a selective “list”.
You know I build longbows as a hobby, and I occasionally post a recent build on social media. I often get people I’ve never met asking if I sell them, or would build them one. The answer is always no. Maybe one day in my retirement from my real job I might turn it into a business, but even then, I don’t think I’d take custom orders. Just build one, and if you like it, buy it. If not, someone else will.
Keep doing what you’re doing!
John Sweka
I think there is Wisdom in John Sweka's post for taking stress off of you??
ReplyDeleteThanks for all the comments, much appreciated. I wasn't looking for encouragement as much as just explaining my situation but I appreciate the responses very much.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the "List" goes, I've never advertised it as a first come first served basis, or chronological order thing. It is simply a list of potential customers who are wanting a bow that I can choose a name from.
I reserve the right to overlook a potential customer that is shooting ILF tournament recurves at the time, and wants to try one of my bows...in favor of a strictly hardcore Hill style longbow shooter who will shoot my bow as his main bow. That is the way I see it, and as I don't have to make bows for a living, that allows me such freedom.
Hi Nate. A few years back you confirmed on this blog that I was on your list (Old Sailor). I know how busy you are so I didn’t want to bother you and just supposed that if my name came up you would contact me. Actually I don’t have any information how to contact you and not sure if you have my contact information.
ReplyDeleteI am a dedicated Hlll Style longbow shooter and haven’t touched any other type of bow for years. Your blog has helped me so much to refine the Hill style of shooting that I am shooting better now than ever. I so appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to create the blog. I know it has helped so many people and also keeps the true Hill style alive. Don’t know of anyone else doing that. If I have been passed over because of not staying in touch I apologise. I have one of your back quivers and love it! Pay no attention to the naysayers and keep up the good work. If you need my contact information let me know.
Paul Palmer (Old Sailor)
You are on my list Paul, as are a bunch of guys. Just working through it the best I can. My post-covid daily workload has increased substantially at the glass shop so my bow output is reduced from what I'd like. And I do a large number of bow reworks each year as well. Just trying to serve the Hill style community the best I can
DeleteNo worries Nate! Just keep the Hill Style torch burning!
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